Are You Calculating Credit Card Annual Fee Break Even Points WRONG? – Waller’s Wallet

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Credit card annual fees are on the rise and making you are properly calculating the break even point will help you understand if a travel credit card or reward credit card is right for you. Everybody wants premium benefits with their credit cards, but if they were to calculate the break even point, they might realize they are spending money on benefits they don’t need

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32 comments

Dan Getz January 19, 2020 - 3:17 pm

So you mentioned each individual set up may alter these calculations. You were going solely off CSR use, correct? In my case, I also have the Freedom card and max out a minimum of 2 of the 5% categories each year. Using that logic, 3k x .05 would net me $150 or 15,000 points. By transferring those to my CSR, I would technically be getting 3k x .065 or $195 (19500 points). Which if I value UR points at 1.5 cpp, that lowers the effective annual fee to $74 before calculating break even spend on the CSR or adding in additional values of benefits.

Does that sound right or did I mis-calculate something. Also… using the Freedom Unlimited and transferring would net 2.25% back rather than 1.5, thus making it a better return than the Double Cash and potentially lowering the break even point on the CSR more, correct?

Just looking for clarification that I’m not missing something in my numbers.

Love the channel!

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Masoom Patel January 19, 2020 - 3:41 pm

It’s like you read my mind and made a video out of it.

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David Kim January 19, 2020 - 3:59 pm

How do I calculate break even point if my opportunity cost card is also 4.5% (e.g. Wells Fargo duofecta). 4.5-4.5=0 and I can’t divide by 0.

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thejokerspeaks January 19, 2020 - 4:14 pm

I don't mess with a credit card unless it can provide at least $100 in value, per year. I'm currently earning 3.75% on online shopping with BoA Cash Rewards. If someone offered the same category at 6%, I would view it as a 2.25% advantage, at least for now. Let's say it has a $100 Annual Fee, meaning I have to spend $4.44K to break even, or $8.88K to earn my minimum $100 ahead value.

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Charles Wheat January 19, 2020 - 4:35 pm

I definitely get positive expected value out of the CSR but by me downgrading to the CSP I will actually come out a couple hundred ahead by having a lower earning rate card

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JosiahMexico January 19, 2020 - 5:01 pm

Hey Dustin! Does the same apply to the US bank altitude reserve? (in terms of $325 travel credit = no points back)

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Catchy Chazz January 19, 2020 - 5:32 pm

Thanks for making a video on this topic, Dustin. This same logic is what makes the Aspire card a really great card to use. Hotel Status and Lounge Access, Resort Credits, and the yearly stay to offset Airline incidentals (which can still be used).

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lol January 19, 2020 - 5:42 pm

It’s amazing how many people call things like Uber credits, airline credits as “benefits”. They are not benefits. Just getting back the money you paid in advance.

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Mark Hammer January 19, 2020 - 6:36 pm

Thoughts on CIP as a long term replacement for CSR? I have both cards and will renew CSR at old rate next month but thinking CIP might be an option long term since both earn 3x on travel?

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Gonzalo Garcia Tunon January 19, 2020 - 7:50 pm

if Im using a Hilton Surpass Priority Pass, do you know how much should I pay if I want to eat in the lounge? It looks like a good option for beginner travelers like me. Thanks a million!

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Oliver N January 19, 2020 - 8:07 pm

If the doordash credits are calendar year, you can receive $120 before renewal.

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chris Vinci January 19, 2020 - 8:29 pm

Great analysis. I'd like to see a discussion on evaluating various rotations across brands. For example I modeled 3 to 4 card setups across Citi, amex, and chase and i found that 2 citi cards with the gold and platinum card offer me the most points and value. A lot of discussion seems to revolve around 1 card or trifectas within a brand

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Jake Broe January 19, 2020 - 8:30 pm

I support this video! People need to be doing more math! lol

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Joseph Paine January 19, 2020 - 9:52 pm

When I calculated it for the Gold Card, I took the annual fee ($250) minus the airline fee credit (I value it at about $75), minus the dining credit (I value that at full $120 value), giving me an effective annual fee of $55. Then I took what I would earn on average over the year in Membership Rewards points (about 50,000), and take that at 1 cent per point (about $500 in value). I end up with $445 in positive value. I don't include the other benefits, like a membership to The Travel Leaders Group which saves me a lot on rental cars (I rent at least 3 times a year), or the trip delay, cancellation, etc. I should at least include the amount I'm saving in rental cars but I don't. I don't know if I could justify a premium travel card right now as I don't travel but once or twice a year, but hopefully in the future I will. Nice video Dustin! Take care and happy travels!

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Fearlessly Underrated January 19, 2020 - 10:47 pm

In my opinion, you will never truly break even when it comes to banks.

It all boils down to if you want to gain the benefits that a particular card offers.

To get bonuses , we spend up to 2k to 5k.

Banks are already ahead of us once we give them this up front on top of paying your annual fee.

It’s either you want to play or you don’t.

You won’t truly ever be ahead of the big bad BANK. And there’s plenty of people employed by them to make sure of this.

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Andrew Meacham January 19, 2020 - 11:06 pm

This is a great way to logically explain annual fees and their benefits. Great video!

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ZacharyDingo January 19, 2020 - 11:43 pm

Good video, Dustin. It’s sometimes good to do these calculations simply and it’s sometimes good to put in all the details! One specific detail that I have come across is that with the new CSR benefits, you still earn the 7x points on Lyft rides even when you’re still using your travel credit because they break the 10x multiplier down into 3x + 7x.

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Market Analysis January 20, 2020 - 12:37 am

That's an interesting point.. It's not as easy as saying 3 MR points are worth 6 cents. You have to also factor in opportunity cost too from other credit cards you could use.

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Xiao Liang January 20, 2020 - 1:06 am

Hey US AR has primary!

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Xiao Liang January 20, 2020 - 1:08 am

Does Hilton Card count toward priority restaurant?

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Saurav Dahal January 20, 2020 - 1:48 am

This is one of the best videos you have done till date. It bothers the heck out of me when the effective fee is taken as face value. There are cB portals, 3X- 5X back and also discounts/coupons/cheaper when booked via points to miss out on if booked directly (opportunity costs). I would only consider CSR's $300 credit as $250 and so should everybody.

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Winter Fern January 20, 2020 - 2:29 am

Hey Waller! question I am trying to find out an answer to. My wife recently applied for a card and got denied and the letter says we could not verify your address you provided against information we obtained from Equifax. We moved 7 months ago and updated all of our addresses with our banks/credit card companies but wouldn't that update automatically with the credit agencies? We are not sure what to do at this point to fix this and are not applying for more cards until It is figured out. Do you have any idea?

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Dugroz Reports January 20, 2020 - 3:05 am

I was doing my own "math" on this very subject earlier today. Honestly, I'm not sure – when compared to other options – the CSR, CSP, or CIBP are even worth keeping past year #1. (Unless someone travels a LOT on international flights where transfer partners get you 4,5,6 cents per point.)

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7MOTION98 January 20, 2020 - 3:37 am

6k subscribers 😂. Nice 👍. I like and respect your opinion, however for some reason I used rental insurance a lot centurion lounge as well plus unfortunately someone stole a sunglasses from my car $ 500.00 value and Amex paid for it plus a a dash cam that was missing as well so at least for me that paid the anual fee and more Plus I used all benefits, I understand that event won’t happen every year. However 😂 you know

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Mao Work Shen January 20, 2020 - 6:50 am

Sorry but the VALUE of each PPS-trip may vary but for sure MORE THAN $5, IMHO.

My wife bought some cosmetic from the Saks 5th Ave website at DISCOUNTED-price that can easily offset the $50 x 2 credit.

Ask ur wife to take a look to see if this is true for u to decide if to change ur mind. Tanks!

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J M January 20, 2020 - 2:02 pm

Great video! It always bothered me when people made conclusions on value without factoring in the opportunity cost of using the more expensive card in the first place.

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Robert Taylor January 20, 2020 - 4:47 pm

2:23 yes dude yes – the opportunity cost of using another card is definitely worth considering, especially for people who are willing to get multiple cards from multiple issuers (as people who care about this kinda stuff seem to). Personally, I have 7 different CCs that earn 5% cash back (if I include chase freedom and ink cash, but not the Sears MC [since the 10x TYP offers are not guaranteed]) plus duplicates (a second freedom and second Citi dividend). Thus, for me, things like 4x MR on gas/restaurant isn't a huge selling point to keep a card with an annual fee, especially when, like you say, I have to essentially change my behaviors and spend more money to utilize the credits that offset the annual fee. Ex: a GrubHub credit is nice, but really if I brought my lunch to work every day it'd be cheaper.

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Ian Cruickshanks January 21, 2020 - 5:57 pm

Awesome post. Spot on. Thought you could have taken this one step further – once you Calc your break even point at the end of this video, show users the correct and incorrect way to use this number.

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Frederick Jackson January 24, 2020 - 11:28 pm

Just keep it simple, break even to me is having earned 25,000 Ultimate Rewards points after the 300 dollar annual travel credit.

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Adam Ausaw January 29, 2020 - 5:10 am

Ive been commenting on the other blogger channels about needing to compare opportunity cost vs the standard 2% or category rewards rate. Somehow these bloggers don’t get it. Even when they discuss these topics they manage to swing and miss.

It’s almost like as if their earning potential relied upon affiliate promotions and referral fees collected (ahem that’s you Shifu, Sebby, etc).

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Michael Moore February 10, 2020 - 6:09 pm

Great info, had not delved as deeply in the finer aspects of rewards benefits as you so clearly explained. Fine tuning finances is like going pro and staying ahead of your competition, the banks.

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Venkata Naga Sai Dwarakanath Kottha March 6, 2020 - 7:54 am

Ooh btw… the brake even point you calculated is assuming that all of your spend is in 3x category which is never the case… if you consider the 1x categories as well then the brake even point will be more accurate.

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